Synopsis
In this episode of the Smithfield Smackdown, Be sits down with designer, author, and thought leader Joe Macleod to talk about leadership, creativity, and the importance of meaningful endings in both design and life.
Joe traces his career from the early days of web design through to leading teams at Orange, Nokia and UsTwo, reflecting on what he has learnt from building, motivating, and letting go of teams. Along the way, he shares stories of innovation, experimentation, and occasional chaos, from the early internet "portal" craze to the poetic beauty (and later pitfalls) of the photo-sharing app Rando.
Now based in Sweden, Joe’s focus is on how we end experiences well, whether that’s consumer journeys, digital products, or careers. His "Endings" projects and books challenge how businesses think about closure and responsibility, reminding us that how something ends shapes how it’s remembered.
The conversation turns to leadership today, particularly in design. Both Be and Joe reflect on how the past few years, fuelled by AI disruption, layoffs, and the pandemic, have left design teams hollowed out. Joe argues there’s now a pressing need for a correction in design leadership, bringing back the "why" at the heart of product, design, and technology decisions.
He makes a powerful case for leaders as champions, not just managers, who listen, translate uncertainty into direction, and advocate for their teams when things feel unclear. His proudest leadership moment? Discovering that his team, years later, still recognised and valued those quiet acts of guidance and care.
Key Takeaways
Leadership isn’t about hierarchy. It’s about being your team’s champion.
Endings matter just as much as beginnings. Closure defines meaning.
The design industry needs to restore leadership depth and context in the age of AI.
Creativity, judgement, and human connection can’t be automated.
The best leaders balance responsibility with empathy and timing.
